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	<title>Comments on: Politicians Are Public Figures</title>
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	<link>http://www.thecorch.com/politics/politicians-are-public-figures</link>
	<description>The personal website of Keith Little.</description>
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		<title>By: Keith Little</title>
		<link>http://www.thecorch.com/politics/politicians-are-public-figures/comment-page-1#comment-39</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Little</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Feb 2010 15:30:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thecorch.com/?p=115#comment-39</guid>
		<description>Aha! Perhaps I may lay down an Ace? Giambrone admitted to tipping off his girlfriend-on-the-side to the recent TTC fair hike. He warned her in advance, so she could stock up on tokens before they jacked the price.

I don&#039;t think that F.L.W&#039;s personality made his architecture any less brilliant, but surely it affected his business relationships (as it did his personal ones).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aha! Perhaps I may lay down an Ace? Giambrone admitted to tipping off his girlfriend-on-the-side to the recent TTC fair hike. He warned her in advance, so she could stock up on tokens before they jacked the price.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that F.L.W&#8217;s personality made his architecture any less brilliant, but surely it affected his business relationships (as it did his personal ones).</p>
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		<title>By: William</title>
		<link>http://www.thecorch.com/politics/politicians-are-public-figures/comment-page-1#comment-34</link>
		<dc:creator>William</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 15:29:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thecorch.com/?p=115#comment-34</guid>
		<description>&quot;Can Jim really lead such a dishonest public life and it not effect his work? I donâ€™t believe so.&quot;

I suppose that&#039;s where I would disagree. It seems to me that the motivations for an extra-marital affair and the motivations for being a corrupt politician are different and not necessarily connected. After all, there was no sexual component to the Sposorship Scandal a number of years ago, and there was no (connected) corruption component to the Clinton-Lewinsky Scandal in the 1990s.

Another quick analogy: I&#039;ve been watching a documentary on Frank Lloyd Wright. It turns out that he was a massive jerk (multiple affairs, abandonment, a sense of moral superiority), but that doesn&#039;t make his architecture any less brilliant than if he were a model husband and father.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Can Jim really lead such a dishonest public life and it not effect his work? I donâ€™t believe so.&#8221;</p>
<p>I suppose that&#8217;s where I would disagree. It seems to me that the motivations for an extra-marital affair and the motivations for being a corrupt politician are different and not necessarily connected. After all, there was no sexual component to the Sposorship Scandal a number of years ago, and there was no (connected) corruption component to the Clinton-Lewinsky Scandal in the 1990s.</p>
<p>Another quick analogy: I&#8217;ve been watching a documentary on Frank Lloyd Wright. It turns out that he was a massive jerk (multiple affairs, abandonment, a sense of moral superiority), but that doesn&#8217;t make his architecture any less brilliant than if he were a model husband and father.</p>
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		<title>By: Keith Little</title>
		<link>http://www.thecorch.com/politics/politicians-are-public-figures/comment-page-1#comment-31</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Little</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:06:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thecorch.com/?p=115#comment-31</guid>
		<description>I see you point, Will, and in the example you&#039;ve provided, I have to agree with you. Having extra-marital affairs does not automatically make you a worse public servant. I guess I was more wondering, is a situation like you described possible? Can Jim really lead such a dishonest public life and it not effect his work? I don&#039;t believe so. 

I do see what you&#039;re saying about applying it to all civil servants and of course that becomes problematic. 

It&#039;s tricky, because of course --- you&#039;re right --- that finding any public figure to demonstrate integrity and honesty is a very dangerous thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see you point, Will, and in the example you&#8217;ve provided, I have to agree with you. Having extra-marital affairs does not automatically make you a worse public servant. I guess I was more wondering, is a situation like you described possible? Can Jim really lead such a dishonest public life and it not effect his work? I don&#8217;t believe so. </p>
<p>I do see what you&#8217;re saying about applying it to all civil servants and of course that becomes problematic. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s tricky, because of course &#8212; you&#8217;re right &#8212; that finding any public figure to demonstrate integrity and honesty is a very dangerous thing.</p>
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		<title>By: The Lam</title>
		<link>http://www.thecorch.com/politics/politicians-are-public-figures/comment-page-1#comment-30</link>
		<dc:creator>The Lam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 18:52:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thecorch.com/?p=115#comment-30</guid>
		<description>The Rock called people &quot;jabroni&quot; not &quot;jambroni&quot;.  But I know what you mean, because whenever I hear his name, I think of &quot;jabroni&quot; too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Rock called people &#8220;jabroni&#8221; not &#8220;jambroni&#8221;.  But I know what you mean, because whenever I hear his name, I think of &#8220;jabroni&#8221; too.</p>
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		<title>By: William</title>
		<link>http://www.thecorch.com/politics/politicians-are-public-figures/comment-page-1#comment-29</link>
		<dc:creator>William</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:43:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I see your point, but wouldn&#039;t it have to apply to *every* civil servant, not just elected politicians? If the guy behind the counter at the MTO has an affair, should he resign because he&#039;s a public figure that has be placed in charge of part of the provincial ministry that governs the safety of our roadways (an important public service, no?)? If he cheats in his personal life, how do we know he&#039;s not cheating at his job?

I agree that Miller&#039;s quotation of Trudeau was not appropriate, but I don&#039;t agree with your overall thesis. Imagine two public figures from two different cities: Jim from Pleasantville and Bruce from Happytown. Jim and Bruce have identical service records; they cleaned up the streets in their community, they made transit more efficient, they eliminated corruption in the municipal electoral system, etc. Three years after they both retire from public life, you find out that Jim was actually a womanizer and had many extra-marital relationships. Does that somehow make Bruce a better public servant? If you say &quot;yes&quot;, imagine a situation where Jim was a womanizer but was never found out and carried his secret to his grave? You couldn&#039;t possibly say &quot;yes&quot; in that case. It seems that knowledge of personal indistrection in the case of The Jambroni is purely accidental and not really relevant to The Jambroni&#039;s ability to do his job (any more than it would be for the fellow at the MTO that I mentioned above). As a result, you&#039;re right to think he&#039;s a sleezebag, but having an affair doesn&#039;t really disqualify you from running a transit system. Accepting kickbacks from Bombarier would disqualify you, but that&#039;s because kickbacks create a financially corrupt conflict of interest.

Teaching our kids about honesty and integrity is a tough job to do; relying on anyone (public and private figures alike) to provide good examples for them is a dubious plan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see your point, but wouldn&#8217;t it have to apply to *every* civil servant, not just elected politicians? If the guy behind the counter at the MTO has an affair, should he resign because he&#8217;s a public figure that has be placed in charge of part of the provincial ministry that governs the safety of our roadways (an important public service, no?)? If he cheats in his personal life, how do we know he&#8217;s not cheating at his job?</p>
<p>I agree that Miller&#8217;s quotation of Trudeau was not appropriate, but I don&#8217;t agree with your overall thesis. Imagine two public figures from two different cities: Jim from Pleasantville and Bruce from Happytown. Jim and Bruce have identical service records; they cleaned up the streets in their community, they made transit more efficient, they eliminated corruption in the municipal electoral system, etc. Three years after they both retire from public life, you find out that Jim was actually a womanizer and had many extra-marital relationships. Does that somehow make Bruce a better public servant? If you say &#8220;yes&#8221;, imagine a situation where Jim was a womanizer but was never found out and carried his secret to his grave? You couldn&#8217;t possibly say &#8220;yes&#8221; in that case. It seems that knowledge of personal indistrection in the case of The Jambroni is purely accidental and not really relevant to The Jambroni&#8217;s ability to do his job (any more than it would be for the fellow at the MTO that I mentioned above). As a result, you&#8217;re right to think he&#8217;s a sleezebag, but having an affair doesn&#8217;t really disqualify you from running a transit system. Accepting kickbacks from Bombarier would disqualify you, but that&#8217;s because kickbacks create a financially corrupt conflict of interest.</p>
<p>Teaching our kids about honesty and integrity is a tough job to do; relying on anyone (public and private figures alike) to provide good examples for them is a dubious plan.</p>
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